can we stop portraying “control” of children as a good thing
teaching someone appropriate social behavior does NOT equal controlling their behavior
actually we just need to throw out this idea that teaching involves forcing a person to do something against their will
Isnt that exactly what school does
Yes. And that needs to be changed.
But insight doesn’t necessarily produce self-control. Sometimes you just see your destructiveness more clearly.
Richard Feynman ‘The beauty of a flower’
the conversation is SO stuck in the relational framework that I just want to give it a great big pendulum swing in the other direction — with the knowledge that it must ultimately come back to center.
I can definitely see the logic in that.
In fact, I’ve been guilty of that kind of paternalism myself, out of fear of my partners’ potential for “false consciousness.” And that fear came out of my own experiences of re-evaluating situations months or years after they’d happened and going, “Oh, shit. That was not okay with me. Why did it take me this long to figure that out?”
Oh. That sounds painful and tricky to balance. :( In general, I’m an advocate of trusting other people to know themselves and what they want/need better than you do, because I’m familiar with some of the ways that just assuming you can extrapolate “what people need” from what you want and need can be harmful. But given the onion-layers of invisible coercion in society and the existence of abuse-based kinks … I may understand where you’re coming from.
I think you’re saying that people have given their partner permission to do stuff that was actively harmful, because they didn’t know it would be harmful until after the fact. This wasn’t the result of the top pushing them, or other entitled sketchiness of the “can’t prove I violated you” variety. But there’s something about what they’re proposing to play out that shouldn’t sit right with the top’s morals, and so the whole bad situation can be avoided if the latter isn’t reassured into a binary, false sense of security. (If they don’t buy into the twin myths that BDSM is sex and can’t be violence, or violence and can’t be sex.) Did I get this? When (if) you have time, would you elaborate?
In my experience, the depths of shitty self-justifying behavior people are willing to sink to in order to not feel guilty about some harm they’ve caused a loved one are beyond compare. I wish that weren’t the case. I wish people could just put their own self-loathing aside and fear and shame aside in a crisis. But that’s really hard for humans to do.
I think, maybe, part of what I’m encouraging here is — given how much power our guilt has over us, whether we like it or not — let’s acknowledge and work through that guilt pre-emptively rather than waiting until we’ve got a hurting loved one crying in our arms to try and deal with our own shit. Does that make sense in the context of the stuff about facing our own abusiveness?
Yes. I think the heavy lifting with guilt is twofold. One, you have to set aside some false assumptions - about life punishing bad people and that being right and proper, about innately being good or bad in the first place, etc. You have to get yourself to a place where you aren’t expecting the universe to hurt you for having done something regrettable, and you don’t feel the need to beat yourself up in lieu of external punishment if you messed up. Then facing up to the fact that you’ve been abusive is about coping with the pain of knowing you hurt someone you loved. And not … the mad scramble of “fuck, fuck, fuck, I don’t deserve to be attacked!!!” I won’t lie. Even when you aren’t spinning self-protective wheels, the fear and dread can be overwhelming the first time someone tells you what you’ve done and you get it. That may not be a point where you can do much more than listen to them in mute horror. But it’s not the end of the world. It’s the beginning of being the sort of person they can come to for help and support. And it’s also the realization that they want to - that they still trust you enough to believe that if you understand, you’ll want to change and act in a loving way towards them.
For some reason, I didn’t see this until right now. I would very much like to continue this conversation with you when I have time. Which is not tonight. But meanwhile I’m just reblogging your thoughts. Thanks. :)
Because I am still not the monster of this story.
I am hurt and I am angry, but I will never become as terrible as you.
I am a retired police officer and I think it’s the police attitude has changed, with the God complex and Us v. Them (The Public) attitude. They treat the public as the enemy. I have been stopped and had negative interactions with police since my retirement. I am not an Anti-Police Extremist. I want to be treated like a person [and] a human. [For] police officers that read [this], think about it this way: the next time you are in someone’s face screaming at them and treating them like turds, imagine how you would feel if a cop like you were doing that to you wife or child or mother or father.
ONLY DAYS LEFT TO RAISE FUNDS, URGENT LIFE OR DEATH HELP NEEDED ONE LAST TIME
Tumblr friends. You all saved my life. Unfortunately I need help one last time to keep it that way.You helped me pay down a hospital bill so I could have major brain surgery in October. Well, the bill for that is $9,600- Medicaid covered the hospital, NOT the doctor(!!). due to financial hardship, it’s reduced to $4,500.
The problem: the doctor HAS TO adjust and monitor my new neuro implant every other week, and I WILL DIE WITHOUT THE ADJUSTMENTS. But he is NOT ALLOWED to see me more than once more unless this is paid.
The reduction has conditions: I must pay $1,000 by Dec 16, the$3,500 balance by Dec 23.
This is a terrible blow to me, unreal. I can’t stop crying in sheer frustration.
So, sadly, I must ask for help one least time (I can get on Free Care in April). You’ve all already been so generous. The SPNFamily, and Tumblr at large has been amazing. And if there were any way to avoid asking, I would.
PLEASE DONATE IF YOU CAN! I’ve set up a PayPal with the email firstname.lastname@example.org to accept funds (if you “send to a friend” there’s no fee). The hospital can only accept payment from me.
I know the Holidays are already an expensive time. Maybe give someone the gift of saving a life in their name? And I know I recently got so much help from you all. If I had any way to avoid this I would. And of course I’m happy to repay with fics, songs, editing, or anything I can.
As it is I’m also homeless and sometimes staying with my violent abusive parents, other times staying with friends. Every cent I get is going to other medical expenses and necessities.
PLEASE SHARE THIS as far and wide as you can! Share it as text so everyone can read and share again. Whether or not you can give, others may be able to.
Thank you all so so much! Below are some photos just to show what I mean. They called me with the settlement, but the original bill is there, as well as a few of my scars (yes they shaved the whole side of my head).
Thank you again! PLEASE DONATE AND SHARE IF YOU CAN, and ask me any questions.
Sopranish is my friend, and I’ve personally witnessed the reality of her struggles, so I can vouch for both the urgency and the legitimacy of this plea for help. She is on a time crunch and really scared, so any shares or donations would be so, so appreciated. Every little thing helps!!
In some countries they’d simply treat the illness and distribute the cost among the population so no one needs to worry about being denied the major brain surgery they need to survive.
Did we reblog this? Fuck it. Anyway yeah